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worst kind of milkshake

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worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:58 am

Getting ready for my annual trip to PA this weekend and I find the transmission dip stick is covered in a pink milkshake. From what I've read, its a faulty radiator. I removed the radiator yesterday and ordered a replacement. Plan is to install and flush the transmission. I've already drained the pan and filled with new, but I have to get after the torque converter. I guess its a crap shoot if this will work, but I wanted your advice. Any recommendations on saving my transmission? Best way to pump the old fluid out?
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby StrictlySaab » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:25 am

On a 9-5? First time Ive seen a 9-5 radiator cooler intermix with the transmission. What year you working with? 99-01 used the cheap cheap M/D type 3 trans fluid, 02+ 5speeds got the more expensive Yota or Saab Aisin Warner fluid. Just flush the hell out of it with drain, refill and drive cycles. Use winter mode and make the torque converter work out, get the trans fluid nice and hot for drains to get as much out each time as possible. You might be able to save the trans.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:09 am

I wonder if after lifting the front onto jack stands, if one could simply place the disconnected transmission lines in separate milk jugs. Fill the intake line jug with one gallon of fresh fluid, and run the power unit until the outlet line jug was filled? Perhaps even fit an extension hose to the intake line, looped over the fill tube to disallow drain back. Also maybe swap the milk jug for a larger drain pan.

Otherwise, it might be a good idea to measure the drained fluid by pouring it into the now emptied fresh fluid containers.
One way to ensure a proper fill level.


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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:43 am

Thanks for the info. Yes, its a 99- (early) 01 era 4spd auto. The radiator was old and had an occasional small weep, I probably should have changed it earlier as preventative maintenance. My new Nissens radiator will be in this afternoon. From what I have read you can keep the pan full of fresh fluid and disconnect the outlet line to push the old fluid out. Going to get the radiator on tonight and start the flush process. I'll keep my phone on me if anyone feels like providing some encouragement. Argh, I hope this isn't the end of my Saabing.

Here's the write up I'm thinking of using.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... p?t=266354

My plan is to reinstall everything up to the point of adding the fan and keeping the outlet line free to place in a bucket. Run the car to dump the old fluid as instructed. Button up and go for a test drive. I will probably do one or two more drain and fills after I warm up the torque converter.


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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:24 am

Check out the SAABnet post: http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9-5/index.html?bID=208156.

Buy a 24MM combination wrench so you can remove the magnetic plug and clean the metal debris off it.

Press on regardless.


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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:17 am

Well, the new radiator is installed and the transmission was flushed four times, so about 80% changed. I didn't have a second set of hands to do the pump out method, so it will have to do. I will probably flush another four times over the next month to get to over 90% changed. Justin, you said you had never seen the cooler fail, is there anywhere else that water/coolant could get into the system?

Good news is that my father is going to lend me his car for the trip up North to be on the safe side. I'm a little sad leaving the Saab here because there is nothing better than traveling in the 9-5.

Thanks for all the help and I will update later.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby StrictlySaab » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:36 pm

Nope, no where else does the trans and coolant come into contact. Just have never seen or heard of a OG9-5 failing. Leaking radiators, all the time now but never an internal cooler failure prior to yours. The 03 and 04 9-3 Sport Sedans/Convertibles are well known for it, nukes the trans requiring a trans and radiator replacement.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:40 am

Just wanted to update. I only have a couple hundred miles after the radiator swap and transmission flush, but no ill effects. Now, if I could only get my stupid thermostat to stop leaking...I have had more problems with that thing dripping than anything else on my Saab.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Saabhelp » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:12 pm

If that is a replacement cover on you t-stat the bolts may not be the right lenth
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:45 pm

DUDE!

Great hearing you tranny flush was successful!

I think Justin may have correctly identified the cause of your dripping concern. If that is the case, you can shorten the thermostat bolt lengths by fitting flat washers under their heads.

DOH!

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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:00 am

Thanks Ted. Good to hear from you.

My thermostat froze last year and I've been battling this ever since. I purchased a new thermostat (not the housing), but have had a heck of a time getting it to seal properly. I even tried replacing the o-ring a second time and adding some gasket maker to the edge of the housing. It a tight space and mounting everything square and tightening the bolts is challenging. I may go back in and remove some of things blocking the space and try again. (lifting ring and sensor bracket) Maybe I have the bolts mixed up. I will double check.

Thanks
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:04 am

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but looking for some quick advice. The inevitable has occurred, my transmission is now giving me issues. I have code P0730 and P0705 (Gear Ratio) and (Gear Selector). I know my NSS is on the way out, but not sure if this would cause my current issue. The transmission started slipping, jerking and finally went into Limp Home mode while driving home last night. (2nd hand from my wife) Drove fine around the block, but has a hard jerk into reverse. Unless by pure coincidence my TCM module or input/output sensor are failing or the NSS is causing the problem, I think my transmission needs at very least some R&R.

What are your thoughts? Is it worth trying to trouble shoot this one? I have money saved for a new car and I am done sinking any serious funds into the Saab. I would be willing to put in about another $200 - $250 at this point, but the car really is worth more in parts than whole.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:38 am

Dude!

According to the way I read the infamous WIS, both codes indicate gearchange solenoid S3 has failed.

Solenoid s3 is located in the 531 valve housing, (on the underside of the transmission). It is connected to H16-4, pin 2, (under Maxi fuse board closest to wheel housing). A blue wire with a white stripe connects to 502B TCM connector B, pin 8, (behind the glovebox, passenger door side).

Looking at the circle of the five solenoids in the valve housing, S3 is the one closest to the right rear tail light.

Voltmeter TEST Values

S3 is grounded through the valve housing.
Gear position values:
(OFF = 0 Volts, ON = Battery Volts)
P = OFF
R < 7 km/h = ON
N = OFF
D5 = OFF
D4 = OFF
D3 = ON
D2 = ON
D1 = ON

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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:43 am

CORRECTION!

S3 is closest to the LEFT REAR wheel. DOH!


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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 am

Thanks Don. I will certainly test the solenoid. It looks like the Saab will be hibernating while I investigate this problem.

Going to spit out some garbage here. Should I factor in a failing NSS contributing to this problem? After all, it does tell the transmission to shift into gear? Any grounds I should check/clean? Found this nice link, but no reference to S3.

http://www.saablink.net/forum/car-probl ... /62077.htm
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Re: worst kind - P0730 & P0705

Postby Senor Don » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:00 pm

The Dude,

Of course you found no reference to S3, it is in the 2002 Aisin tranny. Seems I looked up trouble codes for my 2002 9-5 Linear instead of your 1999! DOUBLE DOH!!

Alrighty then! So let's have another look.

P0730 GEAR FUNCTION. MECHANICAL FAULT

The TRANSMISSION CONTROL MODULE (502), is located under the passenger side of the dashboard, calculates the ratio between input and output speed. Wear in the transmission may be the cause of abrupt shifting and an inoperative Lock-up function.

FAULT SYMPTOMS: CHECK GEARBOX warning lamp on. TCM in Limp-Home mode. Slip in the transmission.

Note upshift and downshift speeds under both light and 85% throttle, (pre-kickdown), positions.
Note any slipping or jerking condition roadspeed.
Check the input shaft speed sensor (532) and output shaft speed sensor (533) are correctly mounted.
Check for diagnostic trouble codes.



P0705 TRANSMISSION RANGE SWITCH, INPUT INCORRECT

The GEAR SELECTOR POSITION SENSOR (245) is located on automatic transmission in the engine bay. In the event of a fault in the (NSS) selector lever position sensor inputs, diagnostic trouble code P0705 will occur.

FAULT SYMPTOMS: CHECK GEARBOX warning lamp on. TCM in Limp-Home mode.

FUSE 29 sends +15 (Ignition) current on a blue wire with a red tracer through CONNECTOR H10-7 (under the battery tray), on pin 8, to GEAR SELECTOR POSITION SENSOR (245) contacts A, B, C, and PA as per the following table:

A B C PA
P ON OFF OFF 0N
R ON ON OFF OFF
N OFF ON OFF ON
D OFF ON ON ON
3 ON ON ON ON
2 ON OFF ON OFF
1 OFF OFF ON ON

ON = Closed, OFF = Open

Current flows from contact A through CONNECTOR H10-7, pin 1 on a brown wire to TCM (502), pin13.
Current flows from contact B through CONNECTOR H10-7, pin 2 on a violet wire to TCM (502), pin 28
Current flows from contact C through CONNECTOR H10-7, pin 3 on an orange wire with a white tracer to Brake/Cruise Switch (134), pin 4, and continues through pin 3 on an orange wire with a white tracer to TCM (502), pin 14.
Current flows from contact PA through CONNECTOR H10-7, pin 4 on a gray wire to TCM (502), pin 29.

So, YEAH I think you're on the right track with the NSS. But before replacing it, try adjusting it by using your voltmeter and the above chart. You might even have a misadjusted shift cable.


Happy SAABing!
2002 Midnight Blue Metallic Linear
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1997 Scarabe Green CS - sold 11/20/12
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:04 pm

Anyone have a spare NSS? This part has been failing for two years and may have finally kicked the bucket. I know they run about $300 these days. I checked the voltage last night, but only tested one wire at a time. I will take another look tonight and test them in pairs to make sure I am getting the correct readings.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:07 am

Voltage checks out for the NSS at the TCM.
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:30 am

Dude,

Disconnect the TCM.
Turn the Ignition Key to the RUN position.
Use a Voltmeter and record the following measurements:
-FUSE 29 BLUE RED wire powers the NSS through CONNECTOR H10-7, pin 8.
-TCM Connector pin 13 BROWN wire, has voltage with the shifter in P, R, 3, and 2 but no voltage in N, D, and 1.
-TCM Connector pin 28 VIOLET wire, has voltage with the shifter in R, N, D, and 3, but no voltage in P, 2, and 1.
-TCM Connector pin 14 ORANGE WHITE wire, has voltage with the shifter in D,3, 2, and 1, but no voltage in P, R, and N.
-TCM Connector pin 29 GRAY wire has voltage with the shifter in P, N, D, 3, and 1, but no voltage in R and 2.
(If any of the above measurements is incorrect, reposition or replace the NSS)
Remove the Ignition Key.
Reconnect the TCM.
Test drive the vehicle and re-check for Diagnostic Trouble Codes.

Try fleabay or LKQ for a used NSS before gulping $300.


Happy SAABing!
2002 Midnight Blue Metallic Linear
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1997 Scarabe Green CS - sold 11/20/12
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:20 pm

Don, Thanks! Yes, I went through the voltage test multiple times and everything checks out at the TCM. I have dealt with the P0705 code for a while, well before the transmission issue. Occasionally, the gear shifter light would get stuck in the dash and I would have to row through the gears and restart the car to return to normal. Only other problem is the car would get stuck in third , but again, rowing through the gears and restart would solve the issue. I've never had the traditional 'no start' issue associated to the NSS, but wonder if there is more to consider. I did dissemble and rebuild it over a year ago and has worked fine, except the above issues.

Chances are its probably an issue with my radiator failing, but I want to at least check a few things out before I chalk it up to a total failure. I'll keep plugging away...

**Found out the lower transmission mount was all torn up and barley functional.

Any advice on testing the input and output sensors?
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby Senor Don » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:52 am

Dude,

Check with StrictlySaab to see if he thinks your PO705 could be a misadjusted shift cable. The fact you could cycle the shifter through all positions to get it to operate points to that, especially since you have verified the electrical connections.

Happy SAABing!
2002 Midnight Blue Metallic Linear
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1997 Scarabe Green CS - sold 11/20/12
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Re: worst kind of milkshake

Postby TheDude » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:57 am

Sigh...sold!
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